Talk:24th century
Okay, question here. Emperorkalan edited out the reference to Min Zife's assassination because the assassination -- as of late 2380, at any rate -- is not public knowledge. So we have a POV issue here -- is this Wiki supposed to be from the POV of 2380 or so? Is it supposed to have an omniscient POV, or only a publically-available-in-late-24th-Century POV? I'd vote for omniscient, because otherwise articles on things like Section 31 or the Tomed Incident become very troublesome. -- Sci 16:50 31 July 2006 UTC :I agree we should be omniscient, there is way to much cover up and secret information here to treat as a public information only service. We should see everything from a Q-like level of know-it-allism. Also, I question whether the fate of one president is really news of the century. -- 8of5 18:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC) ::We can't be Q-like and omnicient, because we're not. For the most part we just don't know. And mostly, because the very fact that something is or is not generally known is part of the information about it that we're keeping track of here. I don't think making a distinction is as hard as you imply, since there aren't THAT many items such a level of distinction would apply to it. On the other hand, I do agree with you that Zife's place on the events-of-the-century list is questionable (it certainly belongs on the events-of-the-decade list, but not on the century page, IMO), but I wasn't going to simply erase it wholesale until I had an alternative in mind, and at the time I didn't).--Emperorkalan 19:22, 31 July 2006 (UTC) :::Granted we cant and dont know everything, and there arnt that many things quite as unpublic as Zife's fate. But there are alot of things know only the a handful of main characters or things know only from say a selection of romulan politicians... anyway you're clearly not suggesting we actually dont cover such info just trying to make what I was saying make more sence. -- 8of5 19:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC) :Granted facts are subject to revelation over time, but I do think it's necessary (or at least highly useful) to distinguish between general knowledge vs. "the facts", especially with some of this highly-secret stuff. For instance, in "The Neutral Zone", it's clear what Picard knows about the Tomed Incident can only be the "public story", not the behind-the-scenes events depicted in Serpent Among the Ruins. There's also a difference between what goes in an individual article (where there's space to give the nuances) and entries on (as here) timeline pages, need to keep things more general. (Though perhaps a better change for Zife would have been to: "Resignation (and covert assasination) of..."). As for the POV, I think we've been keeping it to "generic past tense", which sort of makes 2380 (and advancing) the default POV, but even that's not absolute because for too many things we don't know how events played out.--Emperorkalan 18:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC) As for the question of whether or not Zife's fate belongs on "news of the century" page... My goodness, people. He's the first Federation President to ever be assassinated (at least so far as we know)! Heck, it's a presidential assassination, period. How is that not news of the century? Those things just don't happen all that often -- they don't happen all that often today, and they certainly wouldn't happen all that often in a pseduo-utopian Federation. There's a reason that Lincoln's and Kennedy's assassinations are considered historical milestones. -- Sci 20:21 31 July 2006 UTC :Maybe, but a couple of presidents being assassinated isn’t (I'd say) as much news of the century as first man on the moon, development of nuclear weapons/power, first powered flight, etc. Similarly Zife isn't as notably as first contact with the Borg or the Dominion war. However putting it as you did I can see the case for it being on the page. How about the conquest of Tezwa? Really that’s just part of the fallout of the Dominion War and/or the lead up to Zife's assassination. :Oh and back to Points of View, are we writing from a federation historians point of view? If not I think the Borg/8472 war is a pretty major incident (where as from federation point of view it was far away and mostly unknown and unnoticed). -- 8of5 20:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC) ::Neil Armstrong being on the Moon didn't affect things like whether or not the United States stayed in Vietnam. I'd say that JFK's assassination is far more historically important than a few dozen guys getting to play gulf on Luna before the ongoing coma of the space program. And I would presume that this Wiki is being told from a Federation (or future successor state's) POV. -- Sci 21:19 31 July 2006 UTC :Maybe from a right now point of view, but in the far future I'd imagine humanities first steps into space will be remembered far more than a little political squabble. It certainly seems to be in Star Trek's future viewing of history. -- 8of5 21:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC) ::A "little political squabble?" The Vietnam War cost -- how many thousands of lives? -- and you would write it off so casually? C'mon, man. It was one of the most important historical events of the 20th Century. The Federation would be incredibly foolish to forget the Vietnam War, because it offers us all sorts of lessons on what not to do when it comes to foreign policy (lessons, BTW, that the current administration has ignored, leading to the present Iraq quagmire); the Vietnam War would have been particularly meaningful to the Federation during its cold war with the Klingons. In the long run, the Vietnam War -- and thus the JFK assassination -- is far more important than the exact date that someone stood on Luna for a few days before never going there again; if we're going to talk about historically important space expansion, the first steps towards the establishment of a permanent Lunar colony would be far more important than Neil Armstrong's first visit. -- Sci 21:50 31 July 2006 UTC :Of course I'm not just writting it off, but from the point of view of a future federation historian, one of the numberous wars on Earth in the 20th century really isn't going to stand out much. And as true as your point about the moon should be, history rarely seems to work like that, what is remembered more now? The first powered flight or the first practical use of that, say the first passenger plane?... -- 8of5 22:00, 31 July 2006 (UTC)